In the second episode of Season 2 of Commerce Famous, host Ben Marks welcomes Linda Bustos, a well-known figure in the ecommerce world and expert in customer journey analysis. Linda shares her unique insights into the evolution of digital commerce, discussing the rise of social media, the impact of emerging technologies like AI, and the importance of community in the digital age. Known for her work on the Get Elastic blog, Linda also reveals her process of discovering innovative ecommerce practices, describing herself as an "ecommerce truffle pig" who hunts for valuable insights to share with the community. This episode marks a deeper exploration into the trends that define modern ecommerce, making it a must-listen for industry professionals and enthusiasts alike. Commerce Famous is proudly presented by Shopware, the leading open commerce platform for all your B2C and B2B needs. Find out more at: www.shopware.com/en/
In the second episode of Season 2 of Commerce Famous, host Ben Marks welcomes Linda Bustos, a well-known figure in the ecommerce world and expert in customer journey analysis. Linda shares her unique insights into the evolution of digital commerce, discussing the rise of social media, the impact of emerging technologies like AI, and the importance of community in the digital age. Known for her work on the Get Elastic blog, Linda also reveals her process of discovering innovative ecommerce practices, describing herself as an "ecommerce truffle pig" who hunts for valuable insights to share with the community. This episode marks a deeper exploration into the trends that define modern ecommerce, making it a must-listen for industry professionals and enthusiasts alike.
Linda Bustos on LinkedIn
Ecom Ideas on LinkedIn
Edgacent on Linkedin
Commerce Famous is proudly presented by Shopware, the leading open commerce platform for all your B2C and B2B needs.
Ben Marks [00:00:38]:
Hey, everyone, welcome to commerce famous. This is your host, Ben Marks. I am so happy to have someone I've been familiar with in the world of e commerce for, gosh, about 16 years. Linda Bustos is an expert in customer journeys and the analysis thereof. Linda, welcome to commerce famous.
Linda Bustos [00:00:58]:
Thanks, Ben. Great to be here.
Ben Marks [00:01:00]:
So look, you have been, you've been there throughout my entire career. I remember when I started out in my agency days, my ecommerce agency days in 2008, there's a guy named Kevin Eichelberger founded this company called Blue Acorn, and I was his first hire. And when we were, it was the two of us. And so we were, we were grabbing ideas from whoever was putting them out there. And, you know, and getelastic blog was one of the, was one of the main references at the time. And so you really built up this entire property, this body of work around that. I wanted to kind of start back at the beginning, like, how did you find your way? I think I saw you had a, you were in the marketing space a little bit, but how did you really find your way into elastic path and into your area of specialization?
Linda Bustos [00:01:51]:
Well, I was working at a web design company for about a year previous to joining elastic Path. And it was, I was basically doing SEO, PPC, managing old adwords in Yahoo search marketing campaigns, and doing a little bit of like, ux consulting for web design clients. So information architecture, all that kind of stuff, which forced me to, you know, read. I sought out additional sources of knowledge, like Jacob Nielsen had written a book about e commerce usability back in the really early two thousands. Little set of checklists, this little textbook thing. It's a real blast from the past. I think those make great coffee table books. Now see the old table in all the ways that we used to be impressed by shopping online and of course, don't make me think by Steve Krug.
Linda Bustos [00:02:43]:
So I was one of the clients that we had was an e commerce project at the Web design company. And I was like, okay, I need to learn a whole bunch of stuff quick in order to be able to help them make some decisions because we're building it from scratch. On Drupal, that got me very excited about e commerce. And at the same time, I started just blogging as a hobby. So I was writing about social media. Social media had just kind of started blossoming. Twitter was still before the symbol and before every business had presence on Twitter. It was just, you know, people talking about, you know, sharing links and talking about where they were going in 20 minutes, what they were doing.
Ben Marks [00:03:31]:
Yeah, yeah. And folks, for context, again, you know, part of the, part of the goal of this podcast is to tell the history of e commerce. And back then, Twitter was. I mean, when it started out, like the tweet, tweeting was, it was sms based. I mean, that's, that's, that's the thing. Like, you could, you would text, you would text and it would show up. And so that's how far back we're going. Yeah, it's.
Ben Marks [00:03:51]:
It's a trip to think of it, at a time before the ad symbol, was Washington part of its method or mode? Like I was saying, you seem to have created just this space for yourself. The expertise in the early days of managing campaigns and then looking at really getting into interfaces, looking at ideas, basically looking at what people were doing and thankfully having this gift of analysis and then, and then putting it out there for people. So you became, I think, when you started get elastic was, I think, 200 subscribers, grew it up to 25,000 by the end of it. Was that intentional on your part or was this just an outcome of the work that you were doing by putting the good stuff out there? The people showed up and engaged.
Linda Bustos [00:04:48]:
Well, I have to give a lot of gratitude to the team that hired me there because they gave me a lot of carte blanche. And Jason Billingsley, who was the CMO there at the time, or vp of marketing, took me under his wing, and he taught me a lot about how to use the tools. Blogging is just one part of it. The second part of it is the community engagement and using. At the time, Twitter was one of the channels, but there were things like delicious bookmarks and the digs, and then there were certain marketing niche versions of Dig. I'm probably bringing back all kinds of old timey memories here and online forums and stuff like that. So part of it was writing and coming up with ideas, and the other part of it was hanging out in the community because you wanted to see what was breaking all the different types of social media apps and like, okay, how does that, how could a retailer use that? So they gave me a lot of complete creative freedom and allowed me to just be curious and to be very social on social networks and stuff and then try and apply that to e commerce. So I think that that was probably part of the reason why it got traction was that it was kind of natively community based from the ground up.
Linda Bustos [00:06:13]:
And bloggers used to, we used to all like react to each other's posts. I was listening to your interview with Roy Rubin and he recounted, you know, starting the varian blog and stuff, and we had the varian log. Even though we were competitors, we had each other on our blog roles and I was networking with their writers and we were writing reactions to each other's posts. So it was, it was a good time back then.
Female Narrator [00:06:35]:
Commerce famous is proudly presented by Shopware, the leading open source e commerce platform for mid market and lower enterprise merchants. More than 50,000 clients already processed over $25 billion in annual GMV through Shopware. Find out more about Shopware and the best value in e commerce@shopware.com. dot.
Ben Marks [00:06:56]:
Gosh, man, I hate to wax nostalgic, you know, really. But man, it really was, it was a special time because there was so much opportunity. There was, everything was kind of greenfield and it seemed to me like if you, the people who chose to be good community stewards, good community participants, you could grow an audience, grow relationships, and just really pretty easily build even a worldwide network as we were all learning and inventing this stuff together. That's your recollection as well, right?
Linda Bustos [00:07:31]:
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we as a species are community based. We knowledge share. I think a lot of us in digital, digital marketing especially, had to self teach. This wasn't stuff that you could get in the early, mid two thousands out of school. I went to college and all the courses were outdated. By the time you write a textbook, the Internet has already moved ahead, so it's impossible. So we've all like, as a community, whether you're a developer, designer, business owner, entrepreneur, you know, vp of e commerce, we have to learn from each other, and that is never going to stop.
Ben Marks [00:08:04]:
Yeah, I so I so agree with that. In fact, the, the education component, it's interesting, we, I wonder if we have a different problem nowadays, right? Where, where there's, you know, there are these, these stayed practices, there's sort of the formulas that we all do. But then if you want to actually maybe significantly move a needle or if you're trying to do or accomplish anything outside or above the norm, there's a lot of noise out there. And I would say there's a lot of procedural and ideological inertia. It almost feels like that to me. You just can go down a lane, not do anything interesting and, you know, measure, you know, measure impacts, you know, of, you know, fractions of a percent, um, in this day and age, you know, you know, do you think you have advice for people who, who are working, you know, whether it's in, whether it's in the e commerce space or just in digital in general? Do you have any advice for someone who might want to, you know, step outside their lane a bit or turn things on their side and look at them differently?
Linda Bustos [00:09:13]:
Well, I think one of the challenges, and I think chat, GPT and AI and all that kind of stuff is going to make it harder, is that there's, it's kind of a low barrier of entry to put content out on the Internet. And the fact checking and then the weeding through things is the hard part. Right? And algorithms don't help that. Algorithms feed what the algorithm is looking for, not necessarily accuracy or value, but engagement and other types of things. So it's hard if you're on the receiving end and trying to figure out, you know, like, how to get value you out of the 20 minutes or 3 hours that you allot yourself to surf around and discover stuff online. So I think that's where this kind of idea of like, having curated content or some people stepping up in the role, like through newsletters or through kind of building up their own social profile and sharing stuff, you can kind of find people that you trust to kind of do that weeding for you. But also, everyone can create content. Everyone should.
Linda Bustos [00:10:14]:
I see a lot of people who wouldn't consider themselves necessarily professional content creators creating LinkedIn content, sharing their thoughts, adding their spin on something. And it doesn't matter if 50 people or five people see it, you did something valuable because you added to the community in the conversation. And I think there's a lot of, you know, everyone should and can create content and be part of it.
Ben Marks [00:10:39]:
That is, I mean, that honestly, that could be the show right there. Get out there. If you think you have something to contribute, do it. If you don't think you have something to contribute, you probably do. This is for me, this sounds very familiar. Roy actually mentioned Roy Rubin, co founder of Magento. I was one of the people who, along with Yoav, gave me my, you know, one of my biggest breaks in my career, which is the ability to go out and train magenta developers around the world. And I remember, I remember being terrified, standing up in front of these people, wondering what business I had to teach them.
Ben Marks [00:11:13]:
And it turns out after you do it for a little while, you realize that, you know, yeah, you do have something to offer. But most important to me, I learned to tell to start every class with a directive like, hey, if you think a question, ask it. There's like the only dumb question is the one you don't ask, right? So basically speak up. And I see that as kind of part, as part of that contribution process, right. That exchange of thoughts and ideas. And you have a really good point that unfortunately the signal to noise ratio is getting a bit out of whack. I see it as kind of a, I don't know if you're familiar with Brandolini's law, but this seems like a corollary here. So it's like the B's asymmetry principle of AI doesn't care what it says.
Ben Marks [00:12:06]:
And by its very nature, it's going to sound authoritative, it's going to sound like it's going to sound correct. It may be synthesizing ideas that have no basis in reality. It could be just completely making things up and then even making up references to back itself up. So I really like your, if you call it a rubric or a filter there of finding someone who is just saying again and again things that are true, things that make sense, focus on what they're on, what they're doing. And we could even point to as an example, ecomideas.com e c o m I dash dash s.com dot this is your, I think your current project that is out there. And as I was going through, as I was going through the site, I really appreciate the way it's laid out and how it just lets people simply self take themselves on a journey into areas of concern. So if you're, you know, maybe if you're out on a run, you can't look, but, but bookmark it in your brain as you're listening to the podcast. And you basically, you just, you show up and you've got, you've got categories with, for online experiences, you've got some articles in there.
Ben Marks [00:13:22]:
And people can drill into different areas, whether it's product display, category display checkout and find examples and especially analysis of these great examples. Now how do you, how do you, what is your experience like when you're out there? Are these just experiences that you're encountering or do you go looking for, do you go looking at different retailer sites to see what they're doing and what works well and what doesn't?
Linda Bustos [00:13:53]:
Yeah, it is the latter. I've called myself an e commerce truffle pig. I think that's the way to describe it. I'm out there in the forest and sometimes it's, you know, hours and hours or days and days until I find something. But when I find something that smells good, looks good, I want to pluck it and bring it back to the community and share. I want to bring back a big basket full of, you know, and some of them are big juicy nugs and some of them are little throwaway ones. But let's put it all together. My little soft spot is for product teams, right? Because everyone's trying to figure out, like, okay, we've got an e commerce site and we just want to figure out how to take the experience that one little step further.
Linda Bustos [00:14:33]:
Or can we solve a customer problem in a certain way? And it comes back to that knowledge sharing thing. Like if another site has done this in a creative or effective or thought provoking way, you as a product team should know about it. First of all, doesn't mean you need to adopt it. But if you're in the moment working on a specific component on the site and you're just like, what is everybody else doing? You can go and spend 50 hours like I would going looking at 600 sites or whatever, or you can come to one place where kind of the highlights are extracted out and you can get your job done faster and you can stay focused on what you want to do. So that's kind of why I built the database. And yeah, you asked about my process. Yeah, I just go hunting. I have a certain amount of time in my week that I just dedicate to hunting.
Ben Marks [00:15:21]:
Just up in the Tuscan, up in the tuscan hills. We're going to find the real bangers. I think that's how you call them, actually. Your featured ideas, the highlights. And again, I don't know if you'd call it like a lookbook. It's hard to describe. I've actually never, I don't think I've ever seen it. You know, I don't want to, I don't want to pigeonhole it.
Ben Marks [00:15:42]:
It's, it's Pinteresty or it's just, it's this idea board.
Linda Bustos [00:15:46]:
Maybe a swipe file.
Ben Marks [00:15:48]:
Yes, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. But it, you know, if, certainly if you're on a product team and I actually, now that I've seen it, I'm sharing this with our product, the rest of my product peers, because it can show you some great ideas. I think it could show you what's going on. And I was wondering, actually, the question I just wrote down for myself is, do you actually find yourself noticing trends as they pop up as you do this on a long enough timeline? You see? Okay, well, wait, I saw a button tray over here in this checkout experience, and now I see it over here. Do you see those trends emerge? Probably the first one is organic, right? Someone has a great idea. Then of course people will copy that.
Ben Marks [00:16:36]:
If they think it's good, they'll hopefully test it. But I'm wondering if you see those trends among like, you know, within verticals or among even competitors like them watching.
Linda Bustos [00:16:46]:
Each other a thousand percent. And I love to see it because I'll think that I found something so novel and then six months later, now I'm seeing it everywhere. Perfect example of that is like being able to toggle between galleries, image galleries based on like gender or body type or, you know, some other type of context. So when you're at the category level or on the product page, being able to swap in and out a gallery based on, you know, a user preference or something in one shot. And at first I saw that on one site, and now I can probably rattle off ten or 15 in the apparel space that are doing it. And visual search is another one of those too. So I could probably list a bunch of them. And that's why I started the newsletter, because you can organize it in the database, like in a certain structure, but I'm starting to see it across categories or like, this is one thing that it doesn't necessarily have to be like in the buy box on a PDP.
Linda Bustos [00:17:42]:
They're also doing it on the homepage or embedding it in checkout or something. So yeah, you start to see patterns emerge. And like I said, one site does it and the community gets a whiff of it and then people start building it into their products and it becomes the new normal.
Ben Marks [00:17:59]:
So I think you of all people would be qualified, maybe most qualified, to say that. An interesting thing about, certainly about the e commerce space is we are in no danger of solving e commerce once and for all. There will not be a point at which we get to the end of the road and say, that's it, folks, we've finished this off. So it is always iterative and pretty much derivative, I guess. Not necessarily a bad thing, because this is the world we started making. I mean, you've been around this business long enough. You probably remember the days of urchin analytics that became Google Analytics and the really early days of a b testing. With Google.
Ben Marks [00:18:43]:
And what was curious to me, I think I mentioned this on the podcast before, is that we could take something as simple as button color, add to cart button color, or placement, or the words in there, the words in the description. And once you find something that converts. And again, folks, this was so much easier back then because it was all greenfield. Once you find something that works, oh, well, cool, you do that and then you're copied and then all of a sudden that spreads like wildfire and the process repeats again on something else. And I feel like we're in this, we've been in this ever tightening spiral of interface and experience iteration. You know, you probably see that as well in this day, but I'm probably missing some, some grand picture there. I'm probably missing, you know, I actually don't even know, I don't know if I can really. I'm not the one to say how AI, for example, is going to iterate on this and I'll explain where I'm going, which is that, you know, on your LinkedIn page, right? Like so.
Ben Marks [00:19:52]:
So if you, and you should, if you're interested at all in this conversation, find Linda on LinkedIn. It's just, her handle is just Linda Bustos. And you have some, you have, you have some posts highlighted, featured. And I think one of the, if I remember correctly, one of the posts that I think you had featured was this, the ability to swap out the model of a fashion brand. And then I think you were the, you basically say, hey, I can see this, really, with AI and image generation, particularly generative AI, I can say, oh, wait, no, this looks good, but that is not my body type. I'm taller, I'm skinnier, I'm bigger, whatever. You can prompt users to engage with that product in a way that has not been possible before, generative AI. And say, no, no, no, I'm five three, petite.
Ben Marks [00:20:52]:
I'm curvy. Let me see something more representative of who I am and how this product is going to fit in with my life. And it doesn't have to be clothing. It could be lifestyle, geography, whatever. What are those trends? What do you see coming down the pipe when it comes to this sort of new frontier in customer experience on the web?
Linda Bustos [00:21:17]:
That's a really nuanced one, because I even remember going to Irce. They'd have this innovation lab section of the conference, which would be all the emerging tech, and even back in like 2016, 2017, they'd have these apps where you would take a selfie and it scans your body and then still, seven years later, we haven't really seen that, you know, kind of be solved with being able to match it to real, like, trustworthy experiences. Where I think part of the big missing piece is brands and product data. You need to get a critical mass of brands on board that are submitting exact, precise measurement, probably scanning. If I can play futurist or imagine a jetsonary world where every brand, every prototype, in every size variant gets scanned through an x ray machine or some kind of thing that does the exact same scanning that you would do on a body, because fabric is another variable of that, a cotton garment, even with the exact same cut, and everything is probably going to lie differently than a pure polyester. You know, she in grade she and grade material. So I think it's so complex that even if we have some of the foundational elements there, like body scanning, like being able to have algorithms and generative AI, that can kind of give you an augmented reality super imposition of stuff. Like, I don't know if you've ever tried on sunglasses or glasses in a.
Linda Bustos [00:22:50]:
In an augmented reality, they're pretty good, but you can tell it's simulated, so you're not quite sure. Yeah, so I think that's kind of the gap between what's possible and I think what we all can kind of envision being possible versus the reality of does it really translate into reliable preview of things? And I don't think we're there yet.
Ben Marks [00:23:16]:
Right now, I'm going to pick on one element of what you were just saying, I think, and it comes back to, it's sort of the honesty. Honesty, accuracy, reliability. I think we are, I agree, we are a ways off from these things presenting in a way that feels or appears genuine. But I can imagine there's a point in time, there will be a cutover. It's much slower to come around than we all thought it would be. I remember playing with 3d models back when, years ago at my former employer, but you're right, we're not there yet. But I suppose at some point there will be that point where we will know it when we turn around and we go, oh, wow, we really have moved on into a new era. And then of course, we'll be looking forward on to the next thing.
Ben Marks [00:24:05]:
So as the tech continues to evolve, and I think we're seeing a little bit of this, I know shop where we're indexing pretty heavily on spatial augmented reality, but the reality is people are not walking around, they're not really entering a buying journey with VR goggles. On this is not going to be a normal or really, it's a novel but probably not meaningful consumer experience. So it's really going to be, I think it really is going to happen in the interface. And the example that you posted on LinkedIn along with your analysis, I would have missed it otherwise. Is that seems like evidence of us taking a step forward, like saying, hey, we can synthesize a model who represents either ourselves or someone that we want to see and the product relative to that model or relative to that environment that we want to see them in. And I suppose once that happens, especially in competitive verticals, that will become kind of an arms race unto itself. Now you have, so you have a news because Walmart.
Linda Bustos [00:25:23]:
Walmart bought, I think it was called z kit. They bought a tech company that does this kind of, you know, generative. Their whole thing was, you know, you would create an avatar of yourself and basically superimpose the entire catalog on yourself and that kind of thing.
Ben Marks [00:25:38]:
Yep, I do, I do. That's right. I do remember this was a few years back. Like you, they actually gave you instructions with a Walmart app and you would, you would scan yourself and then once you did that, you could actually, you could essentially have a virtual fitting room and the app seemed to do a decent job. I honestly, I don't know, I don't know how, how well subscribed that that functionality was or is.
Linda Bustos [00:26:02]:
There's, remember magic mirrors? Remember that big thing like the Rebecca Minkoff? And, you know, where did those go? Those are the thing that nobody, like everybody does. Let's not talk about that one.
Ben Marks [00:26:14]:
Right.
Linda Bustos [00:26:14]:
It was such a flash in the pants.
Ben Marks [00:26:16]:
So, yeah, in fact, that was, I never, I was back in New York in the late two thousand and ten s. I remember going, and I probably was not Rebecca Minkoff's target audience, but I remember, I knew they had the experience and you go in and it's cool because everything had RFid and the fitting room knew what clothes you had with you and knew what was in stock and it was all there on the mirror. And I thought this was the next evolution. And what do we have? We still go to target and we have boring old mirrors.
Linda Bustos [00:26:45]:
Yeah. There's a lot of tech solutions out there looking for a problem. I think it's very important to always make sure that it's something that there's actual customer demand for.
Ben Marks [00:26:55]:
That's a, that you, you definitely qualified to speak to this. Now. How do you, especially now that we're past the zero interest days and capital has to be deployed a lot, a lot less capriciously. What is your advice to product teams for? You know, when we think, you know, when these good ideas come around and then these new capabilities again, I'll just throw out generative AI because that's still the hot topic. How do you, what kind of advice do you offer to product teams for indexing on the right thing and to the right degree?
Linda Bustos [00:27:33]:
So I borrow, you know how we all talk, especially we've been in the e commerce platform space for a long time. So you know how there's that adage, no one ever got fired for buying. What I would say is no one's going to get fired for not adopting AI early. I think, you know, if you want to be a first mover and that you're experimental and willing to take risks, just don't, don't invest in AI. What you're not willing to lose right now, it's okay to sit back and let other people take the big risks and then shake out what works and what doesn't. Because like I just posted this, I had an interview with the chat PDP company, right, that put the chat GPT embedded on the Evo website and all that kind of stuff. And they spent six months to a year actually testing a bunch of stuff. And a lot of their internal stuff failed, right.
Linda Bustos [00:28:27]:
They took, initially it was a little chatbot that was proactive. Can I help you with something? They thought it would be a sales assistant. And what they learned was that users treated it like a chat botanical. They were asking, where is my order? They didn't want it for the use case that it was initially thought that this is going to be a great game changer. And because they had the courage and the discipline to go and test it in like 800 different ways and really learn from users, now they have something that they have data that proves that it works. What I'm seeing a lot with products coming to the market is they stop at the, we have this great idea and let's push it into the market as it, and they don't do the hard work of actually testing it with pilot clients and working out the kinks to make a solution that customers will actually use. So I think that's the big shakeout that will happen in the next couple years is a lot of AI solutions are going to go away.
Ben Marks [00:29:19]:
And this sounds to me like we are just doing what we've always done. We as a species. Being innovative in tech is great idea. Don't actually check for product market fit, don't actually test your idea with your target audience and find out. Okay, great. We knocked it out of the park right from the beginning. A rarity. And at the very least, probably every good idea bears some kind of iteration or needs some kind of iteration to really find its home.
Ben Marks [00:29:53]:
That's a really good point. So, as we wrap things up here, and I do want to remind everyone, Linda's got ecommideas.com dot, and I'm citing it. It's a great resource. Regardless of your role in the world of e commerce, it's great to see what other people are doing and to benefit from decades of analysis and just, I don't know, just dogged fascination on your part, Linda. And then you have the weekly ish newsletter that can. That people can avail themselves of on your website. I have one last question before we part. Because I saw it.
Ben Marks [00:30:40]:
I saw it in your cv, and because I think there are certainly, in my world, there are people who went to the x commerce conference and people who didn't. And you got to speak there. This was at the Moscone center in San Francisco. This was back in the days of eBay trying to kill Amazon, which we all know how that ended. What was. What was that experience like for you? Because that was kind of. That was a real heyday for. For ecomm.
Linda Bustos [00:31:08]:
Well, yeah, you know, it's funny because the e commerce industry has taken so many twists and turns. Yeah. And, yeah, it's like I used. I still do sell on Etsy and stuff, but I remember, you know, you just, like, err against PayPal. You know, PayPal, everybody has problems, but then they, like, buy you a ticket to San Francisco. So, like, now I can't hate on PayPal. I don't remember too much on that conference, but I just remember being, you know, like, being very grateful to been. Been invited to be a part of it.
Linda Bustos [00:31:41]:
And I think I was speaking on a panel about. I don't even remember what. But, yeah, it's just that was the era of, like, companies like eBay buying, I think, GSi, Psi commerce, and eBay and stuff, you know, trying. There was just a wild west of, you know, solutions, and it's. Yeah, you're just jogging my memory. I'm sorry. I'm blabbering.
Ben Marks [00:32:09]:
No, no, no. I bring it up, and I bring it up because there's so many. There are so many people. I was actually just telling this to my producer, Hendrik, that there's so many people from that time. It was. You're right. It was this wild west of eBay. Just saying, like, well, hey, we've got this great market position.
Ben Marks [00:32:28]:
Let's buy this enterprise solution, GSI, let's tag on Magento, which we've invested in because it was doing a lot for PayPal. And let's just see what happens when all this goes together. It turns out you can't just mash a bunch of good ideas together and have it work. But what they did was, I think, at the time, they put together in this crucible of commerce a lot of great people and a great time. And the outcome of that may not have been directly beneficial to eBay, but I think years later, people still bring this up like I just did to you. And I think we can look back and say it was a good time when all of us could get together, and we've all enjoyed long and illustrious careers ever since. Well, Linda Bustas, real pleasure on my part finally to finally meet you here on commerce, famous. And I look forward to running into you out and about in the world.
Linda Bustos [00:33:30]:
Well, I just wanted to say, you know, like, every e commerce conference is kind of like a high school reunion. You go walk around from booth to booth, and it's like, it's old faces. And so, yeah, hopefully we cross paths again in the future at a booth or otherwise.
Ben Marks [00:33:45]:
Well, keep on keeping on. I will be subscribing post haste, and I recommend everyone else does. Linda, thank you very much for being on commerce. Famous.
Linda Bustos [00:33:55]:
Thank you, Benjen.